2 comments

  • croes 26 minutes ago
    So like with climate change the ones responsible knew for decades but preferred the profit.
    • Sharlin 24 minutes ago
      And tobacco. And leaded gasoline. And...

      We really are one fucked up species. But can evolution even produce anything better? Anything that's not so prone to coordination problems?

      • customguy 16 minutes ago
        No, these are really fucked up people, to leap from that to "the species" and from that to "evolution" which humans had no clue about even hundreds of years ago... is just avoiding confronting that and them. It's half of the the reason for why these things happen and get worse, a sort of global bystander effect. We feel okay to in public dismiss this.

        If you were one in a group of 4 people, and one of them fed poison to a child to remove a stain from their shoe, or just for a laugh, or for 2 cents, and someone got upset, would you talk about the species or evolution first thing? What habit did we normalise here?

        • Sharlin 12 minutes ago
          No, we as a civilization are ultimately responsible for giving bad actors power. There are evolutionary reasons why that is so, but that's absolutely not to say that these things just happen and a species with a very different psychology couldn't avoid the same trap.
          • wongarsu 3 minutes ago
            As a society we tend to reward sociopaths with power, which leads to stuff like forever chemicals. But society providing neither checks-and-balances nor even a credible thread of punishment after the fact is also part of the issue. Even sociopaths are influenced by the threat of punishment
      • traviswingo 19 minutes ago
        I’ve long suspected it’ll take us _almost_ going extinct to actually take this stuff seriously.

        There are too few of us who understand asymmetric risk, and too many in power who are willing to roll the dice for the entire species for profit.

        Realistically, it will have to get much, much, worse before it gets any better.

        IMO this is part of the natural evolutionary cycle.

      • tracerbulletx 20 minutes ago
        We're our own moral judges. Biology doesn't have an ethical opinion.
        • Sharlin 15 minutes ago
          "Better", as in, capable as a civilization of avoiding doing things that are incredibly harmful according to their own morals. Capable of defeating their own Moloch, if you will.
      • someothherguyy 17 minutes ago
        cheater detection and self-correction is important in systems. i am not sure "fucked-up" is a meaningful way to look at species-level things.
        • Sharlin 9 minutes ago
          Yes, and our cheater detection is entirely broken, given that we prefer to give power to cheaters, as long as the cheater is smart enough.
      • rTX5CMRXIfFG 15 minutes ago
        Oh, evolution certainly can. The bad ones always get killed off.
    • 2OEH8eoCRo0 0 minutes ago
      I don't understand it though. These chemicals poison their own families right?